Why the Molly hate?

[wook77]

I was reading a craptacular story written by an author that I adore mocking.

That being said... a theme that runs throughout this author's stories is - Molly bashing/hating. I thought it was just further proof as to the craptacularness of this author but it turns out I was wrong.

It seems that there is more than one person out there that dislikes Molly for whatever reasons...

My questions to you -

Does anyone else hate on Molly and, if so, why the Molly hate?

No wank and please to be providing reasons.

Comments

[inmyth.livejournal.com]

To me Molly is uber-mollycuddles-mum-love! She can get a tad bit annoying I admit but I heart her!

Oh and did you get the fic I emailed you? Still stuck *sob*.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

I did get it and I'm, err, stuck. I read the whole thing but all I could think was ... you have got to be shitting me.

So, I'll read it again and I swear I'll send it back to you either today or tomorrow.

[yaycoffee.livejournal.com]

I often find weird Weasley hate around, too. I don't get it. They are ALL love... well except Percy. I love Molly. I'd imagine that the Molly hate just points out Mommy issues or something... it's probably written by someone fairly young who doesn't quite understand Molly yet. I'm not a mom, but I totally understand where she's coming from... she's a fretter (and with good reason). She's the closest thing to a mom that Harry's known, and Harry is lucky to have two mothers who would (or did) give their lives for him.

*loves on the Weasleys*

[wook77.livejournal.com]

I quite like Molly. She does make mistakes but so do all mums.

I don't know if it's really mother issues... there seems to be some wonderful discussion below that has me really re-thinking my stance on Molly. I'm trying to think out her reasons for acting and reacting the way she does and stuffs...

But I totally agree. Molly is a good mum to Harry, especially to look out for him the way she does. I really think she'd step in front of a curse for him.

[lusiology.livejournal.com]

I have noticed a tendancy for her character to be written as an interfering busy body. I have read a lovely short fic about young Molly coping without Arthur. Would you like the link? Actually, I think I'll post it & mention your post.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

I saw the link and thanks so much!

She is interfering but that's part of her mothering style, yanno?

My mum wasn't like that but I can see why Molly would. As someone below pointed out... Molly has lost all her brothers, etc, she's bound to be afraid of losing everyone else as well.

And I totally just remembered I forgot to comment on a story of yours. I'm such a wretched friend.

[mordyn4]

It could stem from Ginny-hate, or anger over Molly's assumed pro-Ginny:Harry attitude. I can appreciate her for the role she plays, and I adore the performance of the actress, but I personally find having so many children - er, don't hate me, I'm trained as a demographer - irresponsible. Blame my inner Malfoy if you must.

M.

[tree_and_leaf]

Why irresponsible? Since the tendency in the wizarding world seems to be for small families, and having people killed by Death Eaters, I'd say they need someone to have lots of kids, just to balance things out. Otherwise, who will pay our heroes pensions?

[best-of-five.livejournal.com]

you already know my reasons and my feelings :) but yes, count me in the camp that doesn't like molly. i dunno that i'll go far as to say hate but definitely dislike.

too overbearing and interfering for my tastes. and i am fairly sure i don't have mommy issues. *huggles my mommy*

[chocolatepot.livejournal.com]

Eeeeeee! The Poky Little Puppy!

[chocolatepot.livejournal.com]

I love Molly, esp. now that I've started knitting. All the time. I've always liked her for being such a mum, in general and to Harry. I tend to like characters when Harry does, and he obviously likes the Weasleys a lot.

I think a lot of people dislike her because a) they dislike all of the Weasleys or all of the good guys (you can probably guess which groups) or b) they've had bad experiences with overprotective mothers who are nicer to other people's kids than their own, to a point. And she represents stability, ordinariness, and a warm home, which seems to annoy some people who want glamour out of the HP books (which is too bad, because Harry kind of hates glamour and attention). And then there are the people who are contemptuous of her and Arthur for "having more children than they can afford".

[grrliz.livejournal.com]

And then there are the people who are contemptuous of her and Arthur for "having more children than they can afford".

Oh god, I hate that argument. Money is tight, but they're not deeply impoverished. Buying things second hand doesn't mean they'll be carted off to the wizarding world poor house in Book 7. And as we saw in HBP, if a student really and truly cannot afford to attend Hogwarts they receive assistance from a fund specifically for cases like that. The Weasleys never dip into this fund because they always find a way to manage. Maybe they can't afford new brooms for entire Quidditch teams, but then again few people can.

Visiting via Daily Snitch

[scatteredlogic.livejournal.com]

I don't hate Molly, but she is one of my least favorite characters. I don't fall into any of the categories suggested by the other people commenting: I get along fine with my mother. My childhood was good. I don't prefer the Death Eaters over the heroes, and I'm over the age of 30. ;)

I'd never cared one way or the other for the character of Molly, but what finally tipped it over into the dislike category was the incident in GoF in which Molly sends Hermione a decidedly smaller Easter egg than she sends to Harry and Ron, and all because Molly read Rita Skeeter's article in Witch Weekly.

That Molly would believe the tripe written by Rita Skeeter made Molly seem petty and not particularly bright. Since Rita Skeeter had vilified Hagrid in an earlier news article, I'd wondered if Molly believed that story as well, although there's nothing in OotP to indicate that she snubbed Hagrid over it.

At any rate, that one incident pretty much soured me on Molly.

Re: Visiting via Daily Snitch

[scatteredlogic.livejournal.com]

Erm, sorry - nothing in *GoF* to indicate that she snubbed Hagrid. ~sigh~ Wrong book. ;)

Here from the Daily Snitch

[lanjelin.livejournal.com]

Though I don't hate Molly, I don't exactly like her either. I'm not fond of the way she tries to mold her children into what she thinks they should be rather than what they want themselves.

I understand her reasons; it's because she cares about them. I just usually don't care for characters that act like they always knows whats best for someone and can't be reasoned with, when they should know better (which is why this almost never applies to characters not yet out of their teens, heh).

I also don't like how she snubbed Hermione because of an article. After four years she should know better.

She has a purpose in the books; she provides a large part of the normality Harry longs for, but that he never really can achieve. She and her family were a safe haven for him at the beginning; now he can't really rely on them anymore, and I wonder if part of growing up for him won't be realising that happiness doesn't necessarily equal normality.

Re: Here from the Daily Snitch

[wook77.livejournal.com]

First - thanks for adding your comments to the discussion. I really appreciate it! I am now completely understanding what annoys people about Molly.

I agree, normally I don't like people that act like they know the best for everyone. That being said... but... Molly is trying her best to mother her kids. My mum did the same with people I dated (ala Bill and Fleur).

I mentioned above... but I view the thing with Hermione as a reactionary thing. To me, it's a truly Gryffindor thing to do. Ron did the same when Harry's name was pulled out, Seamus did the same at the beginning of OotP (? I think that's the one I'm trying desperately to remember).

I love your last sentence. I really really love it. What a beautiful wonderfully amazing thing to say. (I may just have to use it in a story if you don't mind...)

[grrliz.livejournal.com]

The standard reasons I hear given for why people dislike Molly are either a) Weasley hate and b) the hater having grown up with a mother just like Molly. I love the Weasleys and my mother is nothing like Molly but she's still my least favourite character anyway. I don't doubt that she's good, I don't think she's evil on any level, and I certainly don't hate her irrationally the way people seem to with Ginny but I just plain don't like her for a variety of reasons.

donnaimmaculata wrote a pretty good essay last year on "Molly, and why I dislike her (http://donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com/56391.html)" that pretty much sums up my feelings on the subject. The one thing she didn't mention in the essay that was one of the chief reasons I dislike Molly is her similarity to Umbridge. Technically, both of them want what's best for their children (biological or otherwise) but they are at a complete loss to understand what is best for those kids. No more obvious is this made when Molly refuses to let Ron participate in the DA because he doesn't need to learn to protect himself, which harkens back to Umbridge's first DADA class when she laughs off the students' desires to actual learn pratical defense spells. Both of their attitudes consist of keeping kids in the dark and unprepared, as if this will be better in the long run. If there's one thing we know of the kids in this series it's that if you keep information from them, they're going to come to their own (often dangerous) conclusions anyway. Keeping them in the dark about stuff compounds the problem exponentially.

[arclevel.livejournal.com]

No more obvious is this made when Molly refuses to let Ron participate in the DA because he doesn't need to learn to protect himself, which harkens back to Umbridge's first DADA class when she laughs off the students' desires to actual learn pratical defense spells.

This was exactly what I was going to point out. There are a wide variety of reasons I dislike Molly, but this seems to be one of the places where it seems just so painfully obvious that she should know better. The issue of Hermione and the egg in GoF is another.

It's interesting that people suggest that a reason people *dislike* Molly is because she's too much *like* their own mothers, and that they therefore have mother issues. If that's true (and it seems to be in a few cases, but rarely), then it really doesn't speak too highly of her parenting, does it?

[wearethestars.livejournal.com]

I hate when Molly's written horribly. :D But, I don't hate Molly. I'm beta'ing a fic for Elle right now and she writes the best Molly.

No Molly hating here.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

Which elle is that? I know about 5.... ;)

But yeah, I hate Molly written horribly. Actually... I hate when ANYONE is written horribly.

I can now see why people don't like Molly from the discussions going on... They're very intriguing reasons.

Oh... and thanks for cheering me up yesterday with that snippet... I really needed it.

hopping over from the daily snitch

[3goodtimes.livejournal.com]

Well, I think the Molly-hating stems from a few different issues:

One reason is the amount of reader sympathy for Sirius, who Molly often berated out of concern for Harry. Some felt she was too harsh on a man who had just come out a 12 year prison sentence and had risked life and limb for his Godson, while those who sided with Molly believed she made a good point about Sirius not fulfilling his duties as surrogate father. Of course, there are a good number of extremly devoted Sirius fans who were highly offended by Molly's remarks in book five.

Another is Molly's role as nagging mum. I think many of us can relate to the exhasperation one feels when a mother's over-protectiveness kicks in. Molly is a prime example of this and can strike some people (teenagers, especially) as annoying.

And the third, and perhaps most obscure reason readers may not like Mrs. Weasley is her role as a woman. Weepy, over-emotional, nagging, domineering adult woman. Female fans might be sensing (perhaps without even realizing it) Molly's tendancy to embrace the stereotype stay-at-home mother: affection and protection, but also, unfortunately, that other girly trait--the ability to overeact.

That being said, I myself have mixed feelings about Molly, which I think is a good thing. Great characters are not great because they're prefect, but because they are complex and, ultimately, flawed.

Whew! That turned into a rant, didn't it? :)

Re: hopping over from the daily snitch

[wook77.livejournal.com]

First - thanks for adding your comments to the discussion.

I'd completely forgotten about the Sirius "issues". Thanks for reminding me about that. I can completely see where people are coming from with that. After reading that part over again... I think my first thoughts about that section was that Molly was mothering not only Harry but Sirius.

Molly is overprotective but I think there are reasons behind that.

The third was one I hadn't thought of. You're quite right... she is the "stereotypical" mum. I find JKR to have quite a few stereotypes in her book (I view Cho as a stereotypical teenage girl and probably why I don't much like her).

I think the over-reaction thing really has something to do with being Gryffindor as well. I pointed out above...Molly's overreactions are similar to Ron and Harry's name being pulled out and Seamus at the beginning of OotP. Gryffindors tend to react first and then question.

Finally... I really like your line about Great Characters. I really really really (how many reallys can I fit in here...) like it. It's such a wonderful way to sum up the thoughts on Molly and, really ;), anyone.

[summerborn.livejournal.com]

I don't hate her, but I do find some of her actions rather abhorrent. Others have mentioned the snubbing of Hermione, but what really got me was the way she treated Fleur, even after Bill had become engaged to the girl. Molly acted as though Bill couldn't know who he really wanted to marry, and actively tried to break them up (at least, that's one interpretation of her actions).

Of course, the best excuse I've seen for this behavior is that maybe Molly comes from a family where marriages are usually arranged (usually the basis for that theory involves a lot of pureblood families using arranged marriages), and she just doesn't quite grasp the concept of choosing your own spouse. In any case, Molly goes a long way toward redeeming herself at the end of HBP when she seems to finally accept Fleur.

So, I like Molly more than I dislike her, but I definitely agree that she could handle her children better at times. For the record, I am over 25 and have kids of my own (and I've been in the position of not liking the person one of my kids got engaged to!).

[arclevel.livejournal.com]

Yes, taking your response in combination with the above about her treatment of Sirius, she's done and said some remarkably nasty things to the people around her. One that always makes my jaw drop is during her argument with Sirius, Harry's first night at 12 Grimmauld Place. In the midst of completely brushing aside Sirius in his role as Harry's godfather, she blames him for not being there for Harry while he was in Azkaban. As she knew perfectly well by that point that he was innocent, that's just an extraordinarily low blow.

[shantari.livejournal.com]

Well, hmm, I don't hate Molly. I'm kind of between liking and disliking her. She's annoying and manipulative, but she does have a good heart.

The only fic I got with her in it, is concentrating on some of her more negative aspects, simply because they play into the plot and happenings so much. (Her ickle Ronnie-kins is a big boy going to get married, and she's about to butt her head deep into the planning of the wedding, with the bride-to-be being practically overrun by her.)

[wook77.livejournal.com]

I can completely and logically see Molly stepping in to the wedding planning like you're suggesting.

Do you happen to have a link?

I think she is annoying but, in the end, I believe she has the best intentions. Of course... the road to hell is paved with good intentions...

[shiv5468.livejournal.com]

I have no problems with my mother, have never liked Sirius as a character especially, and have no Ginny issues at all.

I just think she's a bad mother - she puts her feelings about things above sitting down and having a quiet think about what's the best thing to do. She puts her needs and wants abover those of her own children. She has knee jerk reactions to everything around her and seems to prefer Harry to her own children.

I'd have a lot more respect for her if, instead of berating Sirius for his behaviour, she'd had a go at Dumbledore about the way he was keeping Harry in the dark.

She's all emotion, and I think the world divides into people who like that in a character and think that Emotion = Love = Good and people like me who think Emotion may very well = Love but that isn't always Good and is frequently Bad. She's possessive of her sons, as shown by the Fleur incident, and I think it's mor than a coincidence that her oldest children have taken jobs on the other side of the world to get away from her - they want a rest from the nagging.

I dislike her because she's a bloody cliche of what a mother should be with a very nasty undercurrent.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

I can tell that you have very strong opinions and I love that.

I'll admit that I never viewed her as being possessive of her children. Let me 'splain why... I was engaged to a man from Zambia. My mother didn't understand his culture or, really, anything about him. To her, she didn't know how he would treat me in the future or if he was just "playing with me". This resulted in her trying to "sabotage" the relationship by trying to set me up with other people, etc.

It wasn't that she was possessive, it was that she wanted the best for me. Because she didn't understand his intentions, this gentleman wasn't good enough for me.

I view Molly through this experience, I'll admit. To me, once Molly understood that Fleur truly loved Bill, she supported the relationship.

I totally agree that I wish Molly would have had a go at Dumbledore for keeping Harry in the dark and allowing him to stay with the Dursleys. She also totally needed to be more understanding of Sirius' situation.

Finally, as I've said above... I view Molly as a stereotypical Gryffindor. She reacts first and then questions later. It's similar to Ron when Harry's name is pulled out of the cup and Seamus at the beginning of OotP.

[shaggydogstail.livejournal.com]

Here via hogwarts_today.

There are an awful lot of reasons to dislike Molly, some of which are fair and reasonable (imho), some less so. I'm not keen on Molly because she can be overbearing, and has a tendency to jump to conclusions and be a bit spiteful. I'm thinking particularly with the way she took against Hermione in GoF because of Rita Skeeter's article (when she knew already what a hack Skeeter was, because of the way she treated Arthur), her comment about Azkaban when she was arguing with Sirius, and the way she freaks out about there being a werewolf in St Mungo's.

Molly does have good qualities, and I couldn't actually hate her because I recognise that she mostly has good intentions. She loves her children and she loves Harry--I don't personally agree with the way she tries to, uh, mollycoddle the kids, but I can see why she does it. She irritates me and if I knew her in rl I wouldn't get on with her, but I think it's a bit ridiculous to hate her as she's essentially a good and loving person.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

First - welcome! I'm glad that you shared your thoughts with me (and, well, the group at large...).

Molly is very reactionary. That seems to be an over-riding theme in the reasons why people don't much like her. As I've said above... I view this reactionary thing as part of being a Gryffindor. (I keep using the same two examples as well...) Ron reacts similarly when Harry's name is pulled out and Seamus is reactionary at the beginning of OotP.

As soon as any of them are informed differently, they accept the truth and apologize or act apologetically (I will also admit that I'd forgotten about the Sirius situation so I can't remember how she reacted there).

I'll agree that if she were my own mother, I'd probably yell and scream at her, similar to Ginny's treatment.

*snirt* at the mollycoddling comment, btw. But yes, she does try to mollycoddle them. I think she has the best of intentions and I cut her slack because of that. Then again... the road to hell is paved with good intentions...

[threeoranges.livejournal.com]

What I dislike about her is the way she prioritizes society's expectations above everything else. Remember the "What are Fred and I, next door neighbours?" reaction from George after Molly snuggled up to Ron for getting the Prefect's badge? Just so: at that moment Fred and George are an inconvenience and best ignored to the sake of her hypothesis. Her attitude changes markedly in HBP when previously-prized Percy is now in the doghouse and it's the Twins who are raking in the money with a popular joke shop.

You could argue that the scene shows Molly coming to her senses and realizing that the conformity and social climbing displayed by Percy are not always positive qualities, but to me it just shows that Molly worships success. Her approval seems to be conditional on the child's openly-visible success. (Have just checked out donnaimmaculata's essay (http://donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com/56391.html) and it puts things so much better than I could.)

So that's why.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

I'd never thought of this in quite that way. Thanks for opening my eyes to the "other side".

I always viewed it as pride in Ron's accomplishments that she put Ron first. I also viewed it as her finally realizing that Ron might not "come second".

Thinking over your comments... you've got very very valid points. After going... hmmmmmm... her Howler to Ron about the car supports this as well.

You've given me quite a bit to think about. Thanks!!!!

[gunderpants.livejournal.com]

I think Molly is a really well-rounded character in that she reminds me a lot of the women in my family: she's so well-intentioned and has an infinite amount of love, but she's not the most sophisticated person and often finds herself being prejudiced against others when it comes to protecting her family.

A lot of the Molly hate to me stems from this stupid idea of classism: that she's somehow a bad woman and bad mother for having so many children while poor (which is a fucking dipshitted reason, given that as of yet the Weasleys have resorted to selling none of their children to the Irish meat trade): it's just part of the 'Ginny is a whore' mentality of people having prejudice against what they perceive to be a lower class than them.

RE:

[wolfsbaine.livejournal.com]

that she's somehow a bad woman and bad mother for having so many children while

I think you have a point here, could it be the cultural divide of the readers. Americans assume that they will all have relationships that lead to children, it would appear that it doesn’t cross American minds in general, that they might not have kids, so if they all have large families then that would lead to a problem.

In the UK having a large family wouldn't be frowned up, especially given that Arthur works, it would be different if Arthur were on the dole (claiming welfare). So there is a good chance that here in the UK this wouldn't be the first reason for disliking Molly, I know its not how many kids she has that bothers me.

The issue of over population isn't a big one here in the UK, other peoples over population maybe, but not our own no. Most take the attitude that for everyone who has a large family others have no children at all...

[tree_and_leaf]

I like Molly, despite her flaws. She's far from perfect, but that makes her a more realistic character.

The over-protective thing can be overdone - yes, she is a bit over-protective, but at the same time, she seems to me to be very aware that her (and Arthur's) choices in joining the Order have put the family in the front line. But she still did it, because it's the right thing to do.

fernwithy's fics have made the interesting point that although the hospital scene in OOTP shows that Molly is scared of werewolves and possibly rather prejudiced against them, she is still able to see past them when it comes to Lupin, who she clearly respects (and accepts his comfort over the jumper and over the boggart). That says a lot about her - yes, she can react in an overhasty and prejudiced manner. But she can also see beyond it, when she has to.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

She is overprotective. I think that's a characteristic of both her and being a mother. All mothers seem to have, at least, the overprotective thoughts.

She does do the right thing eventually... whether it's accepting Fleur or joining the Order. It just takes her a bit...

I'll have to check out fernwithy!

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Because people thnk she's "overbearing" and "nosy" and "paranoid."

And you know, she is, but I think you have to give her some sympathy. Her whole family appeared to have been killed by Voldemort, so she's going to be overprotective of the ones she has left. (Not to mention one of her sons refuses to speak to her).

[wook77.livejournal.com]

I quite like your thinking on this. There is that emotional impact of losing her family that she has to remember every time that clock goes to "in peril".

I wonder if that's the reason she even has the clock.

You've inspired a plot bunny, btw...

[sanj.livejournal.com]

I love Molly, warts and all -- I think she's very human. Manipulating and easily manipulated, yes, but I think she plays a lot dumber than she is in order to eke certain responses out of her sons and daughter. (A tactic, by the way, that I think Arthur and Ron use as well, and Ginny and the twins to a lesser extent.)

Consider Ginny -- a bright, active, take-charge kind of witch who got most of her best abilities by sneaking around on her mum. After six sons, you think Molly doesn't savvy reverse psychology?

Molly's got her faults, but I love her for them as well as for her good qualities. And yes, she's made a lot of choices I wouldn't, but it's a different universe. And JKR doesn't show us a whole lot of happy, successful career women, but that's hardly Molly's fault.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

I do like Molly and the discussions haven't changed that. I will be thinking more about what's the reasoning behind those decisions, however.

Molly tries to be the best mum and, in the world I work, trying counts for quite a bit.

I think, living in each other's pockets as they do, they've all learned how to sneak around each other.

I also agree that Molly understands reverse psychology. I actually think that it's a component they teach in Mum 101. It's that whole "teenage rebellion" thing. Tell your kids not to do something so that they'll go out and do it... thus ending up with what you want.

JKR does do quite a bit with the "homemaker" woman. Someone below just asked about the Narcissa vs Molly thing as they are both "at home" mums and if people dislike Narcissa as well as Molly. It's interesting to think about as I hadn't really considered their similarities.

[mr-yer-on-fire.livejournal.com]

I think it's mainly due to Molly's behaviour towards Sirius in OotP. But, as you and I know, she was just looking out for his well-being. Not used to having [normal] mothers themselves, Sirius and Harry probably did not look at it that way.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

That does seem to be an example people are using fairly often. I had actually forgotten about her treatment of Sirius.

I liked your polite way of saying that Mrs. Black was frikken insane. Very nicely put!

[greenwoodside.livejournal.com]

(Here from the Snitch)

I don't hate her, and I would have more sympathy for her if JKR didn't seem inclined to hold her up as the model of a Good Mother. (She does broadly seem to recognise that Molly has flaws, but they're skimmed over pretty lightly.) It's like reading P&P with Mrs Bennet held up as a role-model, you know? Because Molly can be petty, domineering, vulgar and frankly not terribly bright, to judge by her actual actions in the text, But because she's one of the Good Guys, she's never held accountable to the same extent as other characters. "Held accountable" is the wrong word, perhaps - she's never done anything truly reprehensible. But her shortcomings are treated with a degree of indulgence that doesn't get extended to characters who are, to me, more sympathetic e.g. Percy.

I think the Red Hen gives some pretty comprehensive reasons for her dislike of Molly on her site.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

I'm curious about your thoughts on Percy as well. Why do you see him as more sympathetic?

You're right... Molly's flaws are skimmed over. A lot of the Gryffindor flaws seem to be skimmed over.

I've really enjoyed the discussions. There are so many different thoughts on Molly that I hadn't considered. My eyes have been opened wide, I'll freely admit.

[north-of-you.livejournal.com]

I don't hate Molly and I don't see much Molly-hate. However I suspect if there IS Molly hate it is because 1) some people see her as overbearing and 2) some people see her as a failed feminist type. I think people who hate because of reason #1 sort of miss the point of the Weasley family. They are ALL overbearing, ALL in one anothers space, and ALL very closesly monitering the lives of the other family members. Despite this, they all act out of love and they all accept the closeness of their family - it's not annoying to them, it's just love.

People who have a problem with reason #2 get a bit more sympathy in my book, but it's still halfhearted. Molly is disappointing at times when it comes to feminist issues. She doesn't seem to have much of a life beyond her family (or even her kitchen) and her interests seem to often be restricted to cooking, cleaning, and worrying about her family. Even when she takes a stand and puts her foot down she is often run over by her husband; he doesn't take the stealing of the car seriously (despite being asked to) and he allows Ron and his brothers to hear about the OOTP even though it is quite obviously a serious issue for Molly. In the last instance she doesn't even fight back, she instead lords her power over the only child Arthur is allowing her to have dominion over- the sole girl child. Over all Molly can come off as very small, overbearing, mean (becomes of Fleur, although pssh, Fleur WAS being pretty horrid), petty, and antifeminist none of which is helped by the fact that every other character in the book is trying to rid the world of a serious evil, while she is trying to protect her boys. I think, however, that feminists should be feminist enough to support women in their choices even when they are of a more traditional (which does NOT inherently mean antifeminist) turn and readers should see Molly as a symbolic everywoman - forced to face a future where even children are targets some people, even many people, will turn their concerns to the small scale and homebound, not the large picture.

A final note: have you found that people who hate Molly like Narcissa? I would be curuios to know if this is the case as, technically speaking, they are essentially the same character on either side of the war.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

I think it's interesting that you point out where Arthur overrides Molly when above, people are pointing out that Molly overrides Arthur. There are so many different takes on the same actions. I'll admit that I'm agreeing with both sides.

Both of them override the other, IMHO. I always viewed that as part of marriage.

Fleur was wretched to the Weasleys. If she had been my houseguest/roommate/whatever, her ass would have been booted to the curb. In the end, though, Molly accepts that Fleur loves Bill and accepts the relationship.

I view myself as a feminist. My mum was a bra-burning one... I appreciate that there are women that want careers and women who want families and women who want both. I'm not quite sure where I fit with all of that as I'm more than satisfied with my dogs instead of children at this point.

Molly has had a rough time of it when coming up against Voldemort. I can see where her overprotectiveness comes from with that. I was discussing above about maybe the loss of her brothers is really where that overprotectiveness (and that clock...) comes from.

Your last thought has me really wondering. I hadn't viewed them as similar but, after thinking about it, they do seem very similar. Now I'm curious about that as well. Curiosity is going to kill this cat, methinks...

[earth-magic.livejournal.com]

I used to like Molly alot, but OotP put me off her. I didn't like the way she was with Harry and she just seemed like a complately different person. This carried on in HBP as well. So, I don't hate her or anything but sometimes I want to shake her very hard.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

I can see the shaking thing. I've wanted to shake a great many people, actually. I think that's part of having wonderful characters... you really get into them, regardless if it's positive or negative.

Molly seems a bit better in HBP, to me. She's a bit more understanding, especially at the end.

[sugareey.livejournal.com]

I like Molly. I dunno...she's just like an over-protective mummy that just worries a lot. It's kind of funny but nice. And she cooks. And although she was a bit harsher in OotP because the the current situations...I still like her. No hard feelings against her. Now her son Percy...don't get me started...

[wook77.livejournal.com]

I still like her but I can now understand why people get annoyed with her.

I do like how you added, "and she cooks". That made me giggle.

Did you see the interesting take on Percy above? Twisted my thoughts on him, opened my eyes a bit. I'm now a bit more sympathetic to him.

*uses smexyboys icon to tempt you to plot with me*