(no subject)

[wook77]

I'm going to try to keep this as short as possible. As Fandom Wank has made mention of this, I will respond.



Below is the timeline, proof and correspondence regarding the sockpuppeting of eeyore9990 as argyle_the_sock.

April 1, 2008: hd_worldcup posts Riptide by a currently anon author. coffeejunkii posts a review. The moderation team screens this review within 2 minutes of posting. I, personally, contact the author to discuss the review. The author responds (email quoted verbatim and with permission):

OK, see, my first impulse is to say hey, go ahead and unscreen, I'm a big girl and I knew when I made the ending ambiguous that some people would really, really hate it. In a way I'm even kind of perversely pleased by the comment, because I'm not sure I've ever gotten a review that was scathing but intelligent - I've mostly just had reviews that were variations of "eew gross hary would never kiss malfyo thats disgustign" ;)

The moderation team unscreens the comment per the author's request. coffeejunkii and I email back and forth to discuss the review. All three parties agree that a conversation after the reveal will be best.

April 8th, 2008: argyle_the_sock on IJ makes a post entitled "How to Comment on a Piece of Fanwork Without Transplanting Your Arse to the Top of Your Head, or How NOT to be an Asshat".

April 9th, 2008: Multiple people email me about this sock. Trap is set to capture IP address of the sock. Screencap of IP logging: here. argyle_the_sock deletes the post and replaces it with "mission accomplished" message. No screen captures of the original post exist.

April 10th(a): I investigate the IP address of the sock against a list of suggested identities. Disqualify all but one.

April 10th (b): eeyore9990 discusses, in iulia_linnea's meta post responding to the original argyle_the_sock post, how she did not pay attention to the contents of the post. Instead, she found herself impressed with the blockquotes.

April 11th(a): I email the person whose IP matched the sock's. This person is eeyore9990 Screencaps of this email in multiple parts (**Please note that the emails have been edited to remove the names of people/communities not involved in this situation. I have kept the names of those that have posted about either this situation or the reviewing at the hd_worldcup. All posts mentioned were, at one time, public**):

First Email
Request for more time
eeyore's response
My Response

April 11th, 2008 (b): Attached to the emails from eeyore9990 is a supposed copy of the post. I have uploaded this post to here. The redacted parts are as originally sent to me. The section that eeyore9990 redacted is the part detailing how coffeejunkii is an asshat.

April 16th, 2008: I received a request for an update as to the status of eeyore9990's fic from a teammate. I refused to discuss it with this person per the terms of my agreement with eeyore9990. Capture.

April 17th, 2008: eeyore9990 emailed me to discuss the status of her fic. I reminded her of the agreement. Capture.

May 4th, 2008: An anonymouse posts a fandom secret concerning the same situation using similar verbiage to the rant from argyle_the_sock. No proof exists that this secret was submitted by eeyore9990. (Link to post: here including an exchange by anonymice below.

Current: Before completing this post, I emailed the author of Riptide for permission to quote her verbatim. When I did so, I received the following response:

Yes, by all means, use whatever you want. Hopefully it'll defuse things a bit…

And no, this definitely did not sour me to the experience. I'd love to participate in an event like this again, assuming RL allows me to. And you can quote that too if you'd like :)

We, the mods, have held to our end of the bargain. We have not discussed this situation with anyone other than those directly involved. I have my suspicions as to how oulangi received her information as to the identity of the sock but they are just that, suspicions. Regardless of where the information came from, there is now fallout from the wanking sockpuppet and, thus, the agreement is null and void.

As for the ramifications to Team EWE, the mods do not want to punish the team for the behaviour of one of their members. It is completely unfair to them as they had no input to the situation. Thus - eeyore9990's story will remain for voting purposes so as not to negatively affect the rest of her teammates. At the conclusion of the games, her story will be removed from the website and the communities. It will also be removed from the official registry of works produced. Her banning will stand.

Comments

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

In addition, someone pointed out to me that this is your personal LJ, and something like this, that addresses the entire community of writers who participated in the hd-worldcup, should appear in the general hd-worldcup community. You are speaking as the mod of the community, not as yourself, and this does not belong here.

[furiosity.livejournal.com]

This is wook's LJ. Everything and anything she feels like saying belongs here, whether she's speaking as herself, a community mod, or on behalf of the neighbour's psychic kitten. I must admit to being somewhat appalled that you of all people would presume to dictate what people should and should not post in their own journals.

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

She is acting as a moderator here. Therefore it should be in the hd-worldcup community where everyone can respond to this. I think she is abusing her moderator responsibilities. These are private emails and private discussions, and it's none of our business. If it is our business, then perhaps we should vote AS THE COMMUNITY on whether or not to ban eeyore. And it should be screened. There are so many things wrong with this situation that I don't nowhere to begin.

[furiosity.livejournal.com]

This matter, as you point out, was largely private. By that logic, it's an abuse of moderator responsibilities to post about a private matter in a personal journal? I'm afraid I'm not really following. At any rate, she can act as anything she wants here: this is her journal. No one gets to tell her what she can and cannot post; not you, not me, not the Pope, not even Draco Malfoy. You can find it distasteful all you want, but I think it's out of line to tell people what they can and can't post about in their LJ space. When I don't like something someone on my flist has posted, I tell them what I don't like about it; I don't tell them not to post such things. If they continue to post such things and I continue not to like it, I defriend them.

I think if she had posted this in the HDC community, then I'd say it was an abuse of moderator responsibilities, because hi, it would have opened the matter up to a hell of a lot more people; just compare the numbers on wook's profile page and on the HDC comm profile. As such, most people without a pronounced interest in HDC beyond "yay fic!" or any knowledge of fandom_wank and various affiliates won't even notice anything's happened. This is fandom. Not everything revolves around our corner of it.

Wook told eeyore she would be outed if she continued to wankstir. eeyore continued to wankstir. Wook did exactly what she said she would and I'm fairly certain she was aware that she wasn't going to receive a pat on the back from absolutely everyone; taking a hard line on anything will always leave people feeling uncomfortable. That there are many things "wrong" with wook's posting this is your opinion, and I respect it because I understand where you're coming from. I just don't agree. I think sometimes everyone does something to deserve a good old-fashioned swat with a rolled-up newspaper; I've had my share of those and I'm no worse off for them.

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

I will spell it out for you. By posting this is her personal journal, she is abusing her position as a moderator. Do you think that I now feel any sort of confidence that any discussion she and I might have regarding this community (a discussion that I assume is private) won't end up here at some point. Sure, she can post here. You are absolutely right. By doing so, she has lost my confidence completely if she feels free to broadcast community-related events in her private livejournal. By assuming a moderator role, that does NOT give her the right to post things that are related to the community in her LJ. She has the right to post anything that relates to her, but she is NOT hd-worldcup! A moderator is the spokesperson for our community. She does not have ANY right to post hd-worldcup issues in HER journal.

[furiosity.livejournal.com]

Do you think that I now feel any sort of confidence that any discussion she and I might have regarding this community (a discussion that I assume is private) won't end up here at some point.
If you take it upon yourself to behave like a total wanker, create a sockpuppet to vent your spleen and call negative attention to a fest she runs, sure, it might end up here. But you wouldn't behave in that way, so why would you even consider the possibility? You can employ slippery-slope reasoning all you want, but I know wook. She would not just willy-nilly repost private communication unless she felt strongly about the "other side" doing something shitty. If you want to assume that she'd post these things willy-nilly, that's your right, but you'd be incorrect.

And I reiterate, wook has the right to post absolutely anything in her LJ. I'm just not going to agree with you on that particular point, especially considering that wook OWNS the community. You don't. I don't. She does. She started it; she's the head honcho. She can talk about it wherever and whenever she likes, especially in her personal journal. You're basically saying that mods aren't allowed to discuss community business in their personal journals -- I can't agree with that, ever.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

She does not have ANY right to post hd-worldcup issues in HER journal.

Using that logic - I shouldn't pimp stories, I shouldn't make an announcement that I am abstaining from commenting on stories until afterwards, I shouldn't post squee and I shouldn't discuss anything to do with the community as they can all be termed "issues".

I chose to post this on my journal because -

a.) I told eeyore that the one of the ramifications was that I would out her as the sock, not that the community would do so.
b.) My flist is much smaller and thus the likelihood of a dogpile is lessened.
c.) I have posted on the team community about it and there is a free flowing conversation there, the details of which I am not at liberty to discuss.

Also - I find your statement of - You are absolutely right. By doing so, she has lost my confidence completely if she feels free to broadcast community-related events in her private livejournal.

There are, literally, hundreds of negative issues that have cropped up in running this fest and this is the only negative issue that I have discussed here. And the only reason that I am discussing it at all is because the agreement was not adhered to. If you do not feel that you can trust me, please feel free to defriend me. I would rather you not have to worry about your private musings under flock being broadcast.
If it is our business, then perhaps we should vote AS THE COMMUNITY on whether or not to ban eeyore.

The banning of eeyore is not under discussion. This is moderator privilege. What moderator of a fest puts up a vote for the group at large to discuss the banning of a member? This is, by far, much more wankier than anything than I have done.

[neversleeps.livejournal.com]

No. Just so much no. I was totally going to give you the benefit of a doubt before this.

For one thing: you contradict yourself, because you say that she isn't worldcup, but that she can post what's related to her. But, as HD Worldcup is her community, that she had the idea for and decided to start, anything that goes right, or wrong, with the community is related to her, and, by your definition something she has the right to post. See what I did there?

Secondly. This is not a democracy. At all. Which means it really doesn't matter what you think she should post, because this is not your LJ. There's no vote on it, and Wook can post whatever the hell she wants in it, whether it's related to a community she mods or not, because It's Her LJ. By that logic, she shouldn't have even pimped it, or any other communities she mods, out to begin with.

This comment and the one before it reeks of entitlement and "authority" as if you're the all-knowing one of what should and should not be posted in a personal LJ, of which I beg to differ, and it's really unfortunate that I don't know you and that this is the first impression I get.

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

It's called a community for a reason. She is a moderator. Therefore, she moderates. She does not own. By your reasoning, we should call these dictatorships and the people who belong to them serfs.

[neversleeps.livejournal.com]

Nope, not my reasoning, but thanks for trying.

I don't give a fuck about what goes on in the community, nor did I mention anything about that, or if I care about how you feel about it for that matter. What I do have an issue with is you saying, "this does not belong here." That has been my entire point. That what you think of what she does or does not post in her LJ, community related or not, doesn't matter.

When she's writing in her personal journal, it doesn't matter what communities she maintains, she can say whatever she wants about them; she has that right. And, just as similarly, you can either a) not read, or b) defriend.

[kestrelsparhawk.livejournal.com]

I had a major unsettled feeling about this discussion till I read pir8's comment, and now this clarification. Thanks for putting your finger on my problem, pir8! To take names out of it, a moderator who exposes specific struggles with specific people is taking a risk of losing credibility among various community members and deepening a rift by emphasizing that there are sides to take. First thing that happens when someone disagrees, often is appeal to personal trust; that solidifies polarization, and there goes the community. For example I'm a total outsider who wandered into this because a friend saw a connection between it and a post I did on something else entirely. Now I feel that if I were involved with HDWC in future, it would be taking a side. I have the utmost respect for the writers and mods in the H/D community, and while my gleeful little voyeusistic mind enjoys reading wank, my heart hates it.

[midnight-birth.livejournal.com]

I was going to comment myself, because when something's so blatant and, in my opinion, wrong, I of course can't keep my mouth shut, especially because the person above is accusing Wook of hell even knows what, while I highly respect the way she handled this, but you summed up all my points very well, furiosity. :) I was surprised that arguments "you have no right to post *blank* in your own LJ" or "just because you own a community doesn't mean you own it and you owe us something" existed still, really, except when highlighted on Fandom Wank, but they obviously do. And while I adore raw honesty, there is just too much attacking and little sense in what the OP has said that and then continued replying, having too many contradictions and claims to some kind of "rights" that simply don't exist here.

This is not a democracy. Wook's community, Wook's rules, Wook's journal, Wook's consequences. I know I probably would have been a whole lot less calm if someone claimed on my LJ that as a mod of a community, I can't bitch about a troll because I have no right. Besides, Wook warned her. I don't think she thus proved that she can't be confidential. All this proves to me is that she went through with her threat, and I really don't feel bad after the wank that Eeyore pulled. In fact, I think that if anyone does something like this, they deserve to be outed, forget confidentiality. Wook is not a priest or a doctor. Life is cruel.

:) Ahh. Sorry for jumping in like this a few days after the fact, but my brain broke a little when I accidentally scrolled down and saw this whole thing. I am absolutely incapable of just walking by if I feel something needs to be said. And I think what you said furiosity, really needed to be said, because the accusation makes no sense to me. Heh. And I'm studying to be a criminal lawyer. They're breeding me to be an ass, and I'm still not emphasizing with the OP.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Hi pir8,
My resolve to ignore this saga lasted all of five hours ... I am weak.

I should preface this with a few disclaimers. I'm part of team EWE, Eeyore is on my flist, Wook's not. I'm here following the f_w link.

I just can't agree with your position. I do see it, and I do agree with your motivation (and admire it), but I'd like to play devil's advocate for a moment if you'll let me.

Team EWE had every disaster known to human kind befall us: there were deaths, births, tech failures, life failures, you name it. By the end of Worldcup we were knackered. And then at the very last hurdle, Eey's situation was dropped on us.

Up until this point the team captain and stunt-captain had both done an EXCELLENT job of screening the team from the saga. In fact, I heard not a word of it from them. My other gossipy fandom friends from other teams were the ones blathering (the little beggars).

Sansa and sesheta both, rightly, made the decision that the team was tired and emotional and liable to turn to gin if one more problem arose. Even today when the, quite reasonable to my mind, verdict on Eey was handed down, they both said that they would be keeping the details off the comm, and that people who wanted to know could email them. Most of those who had replied when I last looked said "No thanks!" Those who want to know will receive an honest version from those two.

So not taking the whole muddy package to the comm is certainly the best option for Team EWE as a whole, even if other teams may be interested in knowing more of the story. Personally, I am reaching for the Bombay Sapphire just thinking about it.

At the same time, what has gone up on fandom_wank puts Wook into a very grey light. I hope that she will excuse me when I say that a basic reading of it makes it look as though she has been a motivating force in that post.

After talking with her earlier this year with respect to fest matters, I have learned enough about her to not find it credible that she would be contribute to that post. But not everyone has every spoken with Wook, not everyone knows her or about her, and practically no one is psychic.

So you are left with a post that strongly (if erroneously) suggests she was involved.

I think that she did need to make the case clear, both to defend her name and also to reassure the fest participants who are following the whole palaver that one of their mods had not gone mad and turned -- that's 'turned' like a zombie.

Given that to do so on the Comm would just have been another boot into the bruised but resilient body of Team EWE, I think she made the better choice to write it up here.

I quite understand that there are other ways of looking at it, but that's where I ended up, and I hope that you can understand, if not be persuaded by, my reasoning.

And now, for a glass of ice, dash of tonic and ... you guessed it ...

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

I could care less what shit is being spewed in fandom-wank. I am not basing my outrage on anything over in that community. I am assuming that eeyore is completely guilty as charged. I also agree with the decision to kick her off the team. I AGREE with that. What I don't agree with is wook taking this public to her friends (and I happen to be on the her flist) and with her mod hat on crooked, in effect acting as the mod (look at her icon), but not acting as the mod. If I were on another team (and hey, I am), and I found out that material that was pretty pertinent to the team AS A WHOLE (I mean the entire hd-worldcup) was being posted and published that affected me, because anything of this magnitude affects me as a member of the entire hd-worlcup team, I would be rightfully angry. And hey, I *am* angry.

These events should have been sent to ALL team members underflock with nothing more than a six-sentence description of what went down. And, in fact, I will compose one.

We, the mods of hd-worldcup have, unfortunately, had to remove eeyore from the team. In response to a comment on her story, she has created a series of sock-puppets attacking the person who made the commentary. We have asked her repeatedly to desist; she has not complied. We have had no choice but to remove her from the roster. This will no affect any team's standing in the games.

Simple. In fact, it could be posted to the community so that those people who voted (and participated!) in the games have an idea of what in the hell is going on. I dislike this behind the scenes crap. It just happens that I'm on wook's flist and I kept wondering when this was going to appear on the community, since it's a community issue. But no. It appears that it's only for her friends. As a member of Team Canon, I'm pretty angry at the way this was handled. It says to me that the hd-worldcup is merely an extension of the wook's LJ. And I have issues with that.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

What I don't agree with is wook taking this public to her friends (and I happen to be on the her flist) and with her mod hat on crooked, in effect acting as the mod (look at her icon),

My other choice was this one, is it better?

I think, in the end, that your entire position is that this entire thing would have been better off to be aired in private, under flock where all of the attacks that I'm receiving (and I am receiving attacks under flock about this in what you deem a more appropriate place).

Your verbiage? Totally wrong. A.) one sock. b.) not on a team ewe story hence why the need to sock was completely not there. c.) I have no proof that the fandomsecrets post is from her. If it is, it is. But there is no proof.

It's a devil's bargain we made. We know it. Your premise, however, would have required us to immediately pull her story from voting as, when we found out, her story might or might not have been posted. How is that a fair thing to do? And, btw, that's for both finding out the original socking and for the fandom secrets post.

Finally - the idea that the owner and creator of the community cannot be personally involved with the community annoys the shit out of me. There, I said it. It really fucking annoys me. So only squee can be posted in my journal about the comm? What about having a problem with submissions? Or people talking about deadlines? I shouldn't say shit about those things on my LJ? You have got to be kidding me. This is my LJ and I can post what the fuck ever I want to do here. If I want to rant to people about formatting of submissions, I can do that. If I want to say that we're having a hard time with the website? I can do that. These are all issues that, according to you, I shouldn't talk about. What community owner do you know about that doesn't talk about their fest at all in their own LJ? Name me just one that doesn't, at the least, pimp their fest. (Hey, another negative issue because pimping implies that there is a lack of participation!)

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

Frankly, yes, I do think that you should keep your community-based issues out of your LJ. To my mind, when you assume a moderator's cap, you are assuming a responsibility for the community as a whole. I brought up the issue of confidentiality earlier, and if this is your position, that your LJ is an appropriate place to talk about your problems with your community duties, then I think we have no common ground on this subject. I think there a wide margin between only squee and discussions of issues in the community that affect us all. You read my five-sentence description of what went down. That could have appeared in the community (which I see still is in the dark). We have an extraordinary difference of opinion on this subject. I am sorry that you are getting flamed in other journals. I have not taken this outside this journal, nor do I intend to.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

That could have appeared in the community (which I see still is in the dark). Dude. The reveal hasn't happened yet. I haven't even had an opportunity to finish tabulating the votes. The intention had been that we would announce that eeyore's submission had been removed due to unsportsmanlike behavior. You're telling me I should have done something when I'm four steps behind where you are.

And again - you tell me exactly one, just one, moderator that doesn't post about their community on their LJ. Just one and I'll say, you're right and I'm a twat. You find me one. I don't think you're going to be able to do that because every moderator posts about their fests. They post pimping, they post about getting submissions together. They post about assignments. They post about figuring out scheduling.

Hell, I've done each of these, too, and you haven't felt the need to call me on posting about the negativity there.

I am sorry that you are getting flamed in other journals. I have not taken this outside this journal, nor do I intend to. Not just other journals. Your definition of a more appropriate place. But hey, that's ok because it's under flock, right?

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

I agree with your point that using the mod icon was a poor decision.

But I still diverge with you on a lot of the rest. I personally don't really care about the Eeyore side of it, there is enough wanking going on there and what she did or did not do doesn't bear on this point.

Your comments above about Wook addressing the community on what was going on with Eey were, essentially, what happened, save that her commentary was limited to team EWE rather than all of the Worldcup teams.

As I mentioned in my previous comment, she was then asked point-blank whether or not she had been involved in the Wank posting. The people who asked that are people who I know to be reasonable, lovely and kind. If they looked at the Wank post and thought she could be to blame, so could others.

Wook's post here is a timeline of events that act to absolve her of responsibility for involvement in the wank post.

While this is necessarily connected to the Eeyore saga, it is not the same thing, and should not be conflated into one issue. I think it is very important that Wook establish she was not involved with the fandom post, but I do not think that such a personal self-justification is the appropriate thing to post on the worldcup community. Nor could it be summed up adequately in a few sentences without the need for a follow-up explanation, which could only be posted on her journal. And we're back here

[wook77.livejournal.com]

I didn't want to eta the previous comment as people might think I'm changing stuffs around - as far as only posting what you say was the only pertinent information - you do see how that, basically, makes me look like fandom_wank's patsy, right? Doing that only says "I'm going only on what fandom_wank says is true. I don't know that it is but since they said it, it had to be true". Personally, and I'll partially repeat myself here, I gave eeyore an ultimatum that I would act in a certain way. My bluff was called. I'm acting in the way I promised. I would MUCH rather be known as a person who does what she says than anyone's patsy. I did the research, I found the sockpuppet.

[jamie2109.livejournal.com]

Well, hon, I hope that was a typo, cos you are Team Fanon, not Canon. ;)

And fwiw I don't have a problem with wook posting it here on her LJ. I can see your point and all, but in the end I think she was placed in a no win situation. Even if there had been a short post about it in the community, there would have been a huge clamour for more information. Either way she was going to be wanked whatever decision she made. Garbled versions of what had been going on were already out there and for her own reputation it needed to be set straight. The fact that she did it here, I think, feels more like because it was her own personal reputation of her part in driving the wank that was being questioned. As such it feels right to do it here. That's just my opinion, btw, I knew nothing of what was going on until I saw this post.

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

Even if there had been a short post about it in the community, there would have been a huge clamour for more information.

So? She is the moderator. She could have easily said, hey, many of these exchanges were conducted privately and, therefore, do not belong in the public domain. High road here? Protocol here? wook does not strike me as someone who can be bullied.

I stand by my original premise. She does NOT have the right to post WC business in her LJ when she is acting as the WC moderator. Her identities are separate in my mind. If she was being attacked for her role as WC moderator, what better place to address this issue than in the WC community? Don't you think that the WC community should be BEHIND HER? It says to me that SHE sees no distinction in her role: that wook and the WC mod are one in the same. And no, I am sorry that is not at all appropriate. She can tell me, personally, to fuck off a million times in her private journal as wook, that's her right. But if she has issues with me as a writer in the WC, then it needs to be addressed at the community level. I still would have raised my eyebrows if she's posted that material in the WC community, beause I still think there are egregious breaches in confidentiality here that should be addressed, but at least she would have been posting it where it belongs. If she is being attached as the WC mod, then it should be addressed in the WC community. I see her identities as separate. The way this came down, it blurs her role. Let's switch it. Do you think it appropriate for wook to start posting personal and private business in the WC community? As wook? Of course not. So why should it be approrpriate for her to post WC business in her private LJ?

I feel very strongly about this issue. I think it a breach of protocol. Wook and I disagree on this issue. It's a fundamental disagreement. We have to let it stand as such.

I will make one more point. This discussion has generated a lot of wank and ill will. And the point that this is taking place in her private journal, says to me that this is exactly WHY this is inappropriate here. It should be taking place in the WC community. And, in fact, it should be flocked to WC participants ONLY. The fact that it all occurred here in public, only is fanning the flames. Perhaps my most salient argument WHY this shouldn't have been posted here.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

It says to me that SHE sees no distinction in her role: that wook and the WC mod are one in the same.

See the thing is? I don't have a split personality disorder. I am both. Therefore, I respond as both from the same person because they are both the same person. hdcup_mod does not have a separate personality from me.

And because I keep repeating myself with no answer from you - again I ask - you point me to ONE community moderator, one person running a fest, who never ever ever posts about their fest in their private LJ. You find me just one. Go on, try it. You point it out to me and I'll post a big ole public apology for putting this here in my LJ. I'll even entitle it "how to be an asshat as a mod" and give myself a line by line description of how I'm an asshat. Hell, I'll even post it as is and keep it up for all and sundry to read. I'm that certain that your position is completely irrational and unreasonable.

You haven't felt the need to chastise me for posting about HDC or slashfest or any other fest I've run, positive or negative, before this point. Hell, I would put money down that you won't chastise me in the future over posting about a fest, either. Why? Because you're intimately involved in this situation because there are other people "pointing" things out to you and cheering you on as you put yourself out there for them. It'd just be really nice if those that you are putting yourself out there for would actually come forward, as well.

But they won't. Because I've had anonymous commenting turned off in this journal for at least three years and I have IP logging on. Both things deny these "pointing out" people the tools they normally utilize to flay and castigate people. If they can't do it anonymously, what's the use?

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

We must continue to disagree on what we view the role of moderator of a fest and the private citizen who runs that fest. I am not swayed at ALL by your argument. I have no idea if similar breeches of the rules (as committed by eeyore) occurred under other mods' watch. I have no idea. I certainly don't recall anything of this magnitude. May I say that if I was aware of any such crossover, I would be on them just as much as I am on you about this. This is not just posting about the fest. This is a policy matter that concerns all of us who wrote stories and read stories. There are those readers who liked eeyore's story and might not be a member of your flist. And all of a sudden her story is yanked from the fest. Why? What do you say to them? May I say that while I disagree with the way you handled the reporting of eeyore's actions, I agree with you completely that her lying ass should have been kicked out of the WC. NO question on that score.

You haven't felt the need to chastise me for posting about HDC or slashfest or any other fest I've run

wook, I don't go looking for trouble. If I had had issues with anything you have done in the past, I would have said something. It's not like I'm a shrinking violet. This isn't any sort of vendetta against you.

Because you're intimately involved in this situation because there are other people "pointing" things out to you and cheering you on as you put yourself out there for them.

Um, no, I'm not. I don't know who is telling you that I am working on anyone else's behalf, that I'm getting information from anyone else. I had NO idea that any of this business was going on. I heard that people were unhappy with the commentary on the stories, but that was it. No names. And if you've read my journal, you know I made at least TWO posts about how if authors don't want to be in a fest like this, where judging is involved, then get out of Dodge. This is/was a contest! So I have little sympathy with anyone on that score. You want to join in a fest like this, then you need a hard skin. People are required to make judgements on the stories and that requires making, um, judgments.

Can I say emphatically that I am not speaking on anyone's behalf. That this is my own little stroke I'm having. I am NOT friends with eeyore. She betaed a story of mine, yes. That was a couple of years ago. I will also say that if I had known she was pulling this sort of shit, I would (and yes, I need to do that), defriend her in a NY minute. I have defriended only one person in my entire LJ "career" because of their behavior. She's going to be number two. I'm appalled at her behavior.

Although I have some stature as a writer in fandom, I am not in the "circle" of people who hear the dish. I've got a family, a job, a writing career on the side, I do not have time to gossip with other fangirls. This was/is only coming from me. I don't know if that makes you feel better or worse, but really, this is just my "stroke" and no one else's.

Okay, here's where I say, we can't move this any further. I've got my strong opinion, you've got your strong opinion, and I don't think there's any meeting in the middle here. But I was looking over the list of fics, and you did a phenonmenal job in organizing and promoting the games, and regardless of our differences, you deserve a high five for all the time and effort you put in on behalf of the community. Thank you for the opportunity to "play." This story was begging to be written and you provided the perfect opportunity. Remember that I hadn't seen the announcement regarding the prompts. And there were two left and one of them was strength. I consider this fate because that's *the* prompt I would have chosen. So yes, thank you.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

Hell, I would put money down that you won't chastise me in the future over posting about a fest, either. Why? Because you're intimately involved in this situation because there are other people "pointing" things out to you and cheering you on as you put yourself out there for them. It'd just be really nice if those that you are putting yourself out there for would actually come forward, as well.

Ooh, I think that's a bit harsh.

As you know, I don't agree with Pir8, but I do feel very confident saying that she would only be arguing this strongly for one of her own views.

Remember how I was critcising other people for letting emotions flare up and ascribing intentions rather than just dealing with the facts to hand, thus making everything worse than it was? I think we may have crossed the line into that territory here.

I know how tired you are from the comm posts, can I suggest taking yourself to the movies or the park or anything not LJ related, then coming back, maybe reassessing a few assertions, and getting back to the good bits? The internet will still be here.

Failing that, tea?

[drgaellon]

She does NOT have the right to post WC business in her LJ when she is acting as the WC moderator. Her identities are separate in my mind.

Sorry, pir8, I have to come down against you on this, too. You're right, there is a separation between the person and the mod. But being accused of wankery is a personal slight, and wook has responded to it in her personal journal. She has effectively said, "The wankery is NOT MY FAULT." And that, eminently, belongs in her personal journal, because it's a question of her personal honor, not the honor of the worldcup_mod.