They don't feel love, they only negotiate love moments.

[wook77]

(title from a line from The Fisher King starring Robin Williams)

Forgive the rambly-ness of these thoughts but this is something that's been going through my head for about a week and I sort of need to talk this out to get my head on straight.

Can there be humor-genre story in a post-PoA world for Remus/Sirius?

This is something that came up while I was talking to a fellow participant at rs_games and I simply don't have a concrete answer.

I think, in a Hogwarts-era world, humor is a given genre. The boys prank and trick and it can be humorous. It's a given that there will be at least a few laughs sprinkled about, even in the angstiest of angsty fics. Thus - humor is to be expected and a humor-genre story would completely fit within canon.

However, post-Hogwarts, I don't know that I would, necessarily, expect a funny story. I would expect humorous moments. I wouldn't expect the entire story to be a laugh. First there's the war and then there's the distrust followed by the betrayal and years in Azkaban and then slowly rebuilding a relationship only to have Sirius die, Remus hook up with Tonks and then buy the farm himself.

For me, there is too much death, distrust and angst within the world post-Hogwarts for Remus/Sirius to have an across-the-board funny story.

What are your thoughts on the viability of humor-genre stories post-Hogwarts for Remus/Sirius?

Humor or humor moments? Neither? Both? Discuss. (*steals from coffee talk*)

Comments

[iamshadow.livejournal.com]

I've read post-PoA stories that have a good dollop of humour. Most are AU (and I suppose because of that are ineligible for your impromptu 'poll') but I know one good crack!fic that automatically comes to mind (that implies Remus/Sirius) is Contrariwise. Does crack count? Or is that a genre unto itself?

[wook77.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm thinking canon-based world.

And I will have to check it out but I would say that crack is a genre in and of itself.

And yeah, IDK - a dollop of humor would be awesome but I can't see it as a sustained effort, yanno?

[scarlet-malfoy.livejournal.com]

I think it would be hard to pull off and have it work, but I think it could be done. I don't know if across-the-board funny would be very realistic (unless it is meant to be crack, and then it would totally work!) but interspersed between other things... why not? I mean, there's no reason that Remus can't have a laugh over something really silly/stupid that Sirius did once, if he remembers it after he died... and there's no reason he couldn't look around at himself and Tonks and have a fit of uncontrollable laughter and sense of irony over what he can imagine Sirius saying about the entire situation. Even after all that time in Azkaban, during the time in which Sirius was alive, I can't imagine him being completely emo ALL of the time... it's just not in his character. And I can totally picture the two of them sitting around in whatever Afterlife they are in, just making fun of themselves, everything that happened, having a go at Dumbledore. Well... mostly Sirius, Remus would be kind of exasperated about the whole thing, which would be humorous in and of itself. =) So, yeah. I think it can be done!

[wook77.livejournal.com]

Interspersed between moments is sort of what I was thinking. Sustained and long term? IDK, I can't buy it at this point... at least when they're alive.

I totes can see the afterlife thing :D. Did you know that there's a fest just for post-death remus/sirius? I found it and it's on the watcher's list for rs_prophet but I cannot, for the life of me, remember the name of it.

[thescarletwoman.livejournal.com]

I thin it depends on how you do it without it being all out crack. If it's set at a particularly light moment (like christmastime) you'd be able to have a humorous fic. Also, if you went AU and something post-war you could do it as well.

We shall discuss tonight. I'm off to the post office to mail you something that you should have gotten 4 months ago. Because I suck like that.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

But see - if it's at christmas, it's sort of just one moment, not sustained, yanno? Like - if you set the fic during hogwarts, from start to finish and for the entire year, it could be humorous.

and ooooooh, pressies? for me? *grabby hands*

[midnight-birth.livejournal.com]

Well. I would say it could be done simply because I've recently done it. I think it's easier to make a humour-fic if you're focusing on maybe one night or one day - not a story that spans a long time. (And I'm talking humour, not crack. I don't read or like crack, thus wouldn't be able to reliably talk about it.) Because you're right. Sirius is not only very mentally fucked up after Azkaban, but after PoA there isn't much room for humour for anybody, forget an accused killer running from the authorities betrayed by his best friend and a bit moved in the head. But yes, I've seen it done well. It's not an approach people take very often, but they do.

This, by the way, is why I much prefer writing them in Hogwarts, because for me, more often than not, writing them in other times would have to include a lot of angst and emotions and even tragedy. It's one of the first things that comes to mind.

Of course, if you got AU and keep them alive throughout the war (or bring them back somehow), it's much easier down the road. I know I've seen/written Snape/Lupin fic that way. :P

[midnitemaraud-r.livejournal.com]

I think it's easier to make a humour-fic if you're focusing on maybe one night or one day - not a story that spans a long time.

Yup. Exactly. I've read a few, and I've had ideas for a few which I haven't written, because, well, it's me.

It also depends on how fucked up you interpret Sirius as being. I know a lot of people tend to write him as one step away from the closed ward at St. Mungos, but I don't think he was that messed up, and in canon, Fudge even says that when he saw Black in Azkaban, he was calm and not affected and asked him for the Daily Prophet. *shrug*

Was he a bit crazy that night in the shack? Absolutely! He was hell bent on revenge and couldn't see the forest for the trees - all his focus was on capturing and killing Peter. He was also ridiculously malnourished, and having spent twelve years in effective solitary confinement... But he was cognizant enough to get to Little Whinging and then all the way up to Hogwarts, to plot with a half-kneazle, purchase a Firebolt and survive. Not completely sane, but not completely gone either. We do love drama though. :)

[midnight-birth.livejournal.com]

I totally agree. I don't see Sirius as a raving lunatic on the verge of losing his mind completely. If anything, I think that the damage would be more internal in his case - brooding, guilt, closed up, paranoid maybe or anti-social.. :)

[wook77.livejournal.com]

For me - IDK - I see that cognizance as more of a "fueled and sustained by revenge" sanity. Once that goes away, he sort of becomes co-dependent on Harry and, to a lesser extent, Remus. Once that major focus disappears, he starts unravelling a bit at the seams. I don't think he ever gets completely insane or even gets an opportunity to slide in that direction but I would say that he would have disassociations with reality.

But yes - humor moments? Definitely and that's what focusing on that one moment in time is for me. But to see Sirius and Remus laughing throughout OOTP? I don't buy it and I can't see it...

[wook77.livejournal.com]

I think it's easier to make a humour-fic if you're focusing on maybe one night or one day - not a story that spans a long time.

That's what I mean about "humor moments". It's these little moments interspersed amongst the darkness that surrounds them.

During Hogwarts - humor can span years but post-Hogwarts? I can't see it.

And I was sort of concentrating in a canon-based world because I've seen awesome AU where it's humorous start to finish and spanning years. I love them as a nice "cleanser" from the angst and character death (which I love, too :D)

And no snape in this journal! *chastises while laughing*

[secretsolitaire.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, interesting question! I definitely think you can have moments of humor, and I agree with the person above who noted that it's much easier to be humorous over a fic that spans only a short length of time. But I think the humor will always have slightly wistful undertones, because these two can never be as wholly carefree and lighthearted as they were as kids.

This fic has some lovely gentle humor in the beginning: It's Not the Years, Honey, It's the Mileage by thistlerose

And here's probably the best example of post-Azkaban humor that I can think of, even though again I think there are wistful undercurrents (and I like the fic better for them): The Scurvy, As Was Prophesized by sheafrotherdon

[wook77.livejournal.com]

I love how you put it - wistful undertones. I think, in all my ramblings, that's what I meant. ♥

And oooh! RECS! YAYES! I hadn't read either of these so I shall be doing that as soon as I have free moments! ♥ again!

[fiona-fawkes.livejournal.com]

I think it would have to be a short term leave of their daily lives in order to be plausible. A single event, an outing, a few days surrounding an emotionally awesome moment such as shortly after Sirius's flight on Buckbeak or when he's so happy to have family in the house for Christmas. I think that the few years where we have Sirius adult, alive and not in Azkaban are so overwhelmingly dark that it would be difficult to take a convincing vacation from that gloom. But as with most things, I think a skilled author could take them out of that depressive life, if only for a moment. Even if it's celebrating their favorite Quidditch team winning a match by forcing one to take the other out for ice cream, we the reader KNOW that the happiness will never last, and that's why humor would have to be dealt with carefully, or else it'll feel forced and odd.

Of course, Sirius poly-juicing himself into Tonks when he figures out that she has a crush on Remus and then crawling into Remus's bed would be pretty amusing, no matter what's going on in the rest of their lives. But again, it's just a moment.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

So humor moments is what you're leaning towards?

I like the idea of it being a convincing vacation because, really, that's exactly what it would be - a small vacation away from the overwhelming dreariness of the rest of Sirius's life.

And forced and odd are the perfect words for what i was trying to convey. It would feel forced and odd if it wasn't handled carefully and/or labelled AU.

And you will write that story, right?

[fiona-fawkes.livejournal.com]

The Sirius polyjuiced as Tonks fic? Pfft. Add it to my long list of brilliant plots that never were.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

I agree that it's often a short term event that would need to be addressed, but I think it's very doable. I've written humor fics myself that take place post-Hogwarts (Accio Bananas! (http://www.riddikulus.org/restrictedsection/fic.php?fic=rid:/authors/lupinslittlesister/AB.html), which does pretty much count as crack, Sparkles and Sugar Plums (http://community.livejournal.com/rs_small_gifts/6493.html), and The Need to Apologize (http://lupinslittlesis.livejournal.com/45918.html) are all post-Hogwarts humor), and they all do take place in a short time span.

However, I'd go a little further and point out that, generally, humor- pure humor- needs to be fairly short anyway. There are a reason most sitcoms are 22 minutes instead of 44. I've read funny authors like Terry Pratchett, but when you start getting into longer books/pieces of writing, it tends to not be JUST humor. You have to add in the rest of life- action, drama, etc. Too long and a piece gets too... stale, I guess.

I do a lot of post-Hogwarts work, and I find that there's plenty of room for humor- in fact, it's needed. It provides a contrast to all the angst that is there, and often really emphasizes the good in order to make the bad more poignant. I'd argue that humor is as necessary in a good post-Hogwarts fic as it is in a during-Hogwart's fic.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

YAYES FOR MORE RECS!

Getting the squee out of the way - so I think I'm reading that you're leaning towards humor moments... that sustained humor can't last.

fiona_fawkes just above said about the humor being a vacation and I think that's what I'm reading you saying, too.

I like the premise that humor is necessary but for a balanced story. I'm not sure that this pairing can be "balanced" between angst and heartache and happiness. They're sort of doomed to failure from the beginning if you keep it in a canon-based world so if you're just out to look at that angst and heartache, humor could detract from it, yanno? (see, I have a tendency to ramble and take about a billion words to make a point that others make in like 5 words)

In other words - small bits of humor moments to alleviate the angst but sustained humor? IDK.