(no subject)

[wook77]

I've been reading a few discussions about spoilers on various people's journals. There are those that are leaving until a month after the book. There are those reading on filters and then there are those that aren't changing their habits. I'm in the third camp and I admit to having a few thoughts about the first two.

Warning: Usage of current canon in the guise of fake spoilers. I can promise, out of respect for those that do not wish to be spoiled, that you will not find any real spoilers for DH here. Then again, if you don't know that Hermione is supposed to have bushy hair, then, well, you just might be out of luck.



First – I find real life to be even more cruel about spoilers than the online fandom culture. I'm not a huge fan of the Simpson's so I'll admit that my judgment is skewed on this but – my favorite episode is the one where Homer comes out of the theater at the end of Empire Strikes Back and, in front of the entire line of people waiting to see it for the first time, incredulously announces that Darth Vader is Luke's father. It's a pivotal moment in the movie and one that would be a spoiler to those that hadn't seen it.

Sure, the Simpson's is a cartoon but it's based on countless experiences that happen in real life. Whether it's the morning dj greeting you with the news that Hermione has bushy hair or the nightly news on your local channel discussing the various current spoilers (which shall not be discussed here), it's going to happen. Getting offline isn't going to limit your contact with these insidious spoilers. How is leaving LJ going to protect you from that?

On a personal note, I like the idea of having a culture here that understands and commiserates about being greeted with spoilers IRL. We sympathize, we support and we communicate.

Second – There's the whole idea that the entire experience will be ruined by being "spoiled". Aren't we all here for more than the ending? If we were all here just to find out who lives and who dies, we'd just wait until the reactions showed up and read about it then. We're here for the experience, for the enjoyment of the words (let's not debate whether JKR can really write or not, yeah?) and for the community.

If someone tells me that Boba Fett makes it out of the Sarlacc Pit and lives a long fruitful life, I'm still going to wonder "how does he do it? How long of a life? What does he do with it?" It's about the story, not just the ending.

Quoting from a Time magazine, "The idea that someone could ruin a novel by revealing its ending is like saying you could ruin the Mona Lisa by revealing that it's a picture of a woman with a center part. Spoilers are a myth: they don't spoil. No elaborate secrecy campaign is going to make [DH] better than it already is and no website could possibly make it useless and boring." (Time, July 9, 2007)

My point is the spoilers only ruin the experience if you let them. It's your journal, do what you want. I'm here for the long haul. I'm not reading on filters and I'm going to enjoy the book just as much as I've enjoyed every single other one of them, regardless of whether I know that Peeves and Filch argue about bubblegum or Moaning Myrtle moans in the loo.


As I will be at work until later with no access to LJ, comments are screened until I get home.

Comments

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

My point is the spoilers only ruin the experience if you let them.

I have to disagree with that. I really think that the way spoilers affect people varies depending on their personality. Some people are just more sensitive to it than others. Some people prefer to read the last page of their book first, and some people would literally not read a book or see a movie if they knew how it ended.

It's never a good idea to tell people how they should or shouldn't feel about something. They just do, and someone (condescendingly, usually) telling them they're being a baby about it doesn't change the fact that they feel that way.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

The personality bit was really what I was driving at. Some people allow spoilers to influence their experience to an amazing degree and others don't allow them to influence at all. I admit that I'm in the second camp.

I hope that this doesn't read like I'm calling anyone a baby as that wasn't my intention. My intention was to say that I can't really see leaving LJ as a effective way of coping with spoilers, not when there are all sorts of non-fandom people that simply don't understand what a spoiler can do to the experience.

[wendy.livejournal.com]

I loooove spoilers. For everything...books, movies, TV shows. I want them ALL.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

I normally don't actively seek them out but if I run into them, I'm fine with it.

The only time I've bitched about a spoiler was when there was a huge freaking flashing graphic. OMG, did I bitch about that.

I see the point of not wanting to be spoiled but, as emmagrant01 points out above (now that it's not screened), it's about personalities. I have trust issues so I simply don't believe that anything I read as a spoiler is true until I actually experience the story myself. I don't actively spoil anyone (hence why the comments here are screened as I figured some asshat would comment with the most recent round of spoilers) but I just don't see how leaving LJ is going to keep anyone from being spoiled.

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

Heh. The person writing the Time article is obviously pro-spoiler. I find people who are often literally don't understand that it could be different for other people. It's not that spoilers will completely ruin something and make reading or watching pointless, but they will change the experience. There are films such as Sixth Sense and The Crying Game that I will never be able to experience the way I'd like to because I already know the big reveal. I have them on my Netflix queue. I would still like to see them. But I am disappointed that I won't be able to figure it out on my own or to just follow the story and see how it unfolds. A lot of people don't like surprises, any surprises. But I do. I find that to be the most enjoyable part of reading or watching something, that little "oh wow" or big "oh my GOD" when something unexpected happens. Spoilers take that away. They do spoil. There's no way for them not to.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

Actually - their story was fairly well balanced. They refused to discuss any of the spoilers that have circulated and didn't really mention names or such either. I admit the quotation is pro-spoiler but they also had a fairly good anti-spoiler part as well.

I think it's really about how people watch things so I agree with you on that. For me (as I can't speak for others), when I read or watch, I'm actively trying to figure things out and (this is going to sound really egotistical and I do not mean to come off that way) I normally figure out the ending either by luck or clues. IE - Sixth Sense - as soon as that scene happened, I knew the ending. It was fairly obvious to me in the way the scenes before and after were crafted.

For the surprises bit, even though I've been spoiled for things, I still jump or get shocked or whatever. I disregard the spoiler because I treat it as "not true" until it's proven in front of me by what I'm watching.

emmagrant01 says above that it's about personalities and I think that's a major part of it that I, unfortunately, didn't really convey very well.

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

Well, the story may be balanced, but if you say "spoilers are a myth" and imply that there's no reason to be upset about being spoiled and it's all in your mind, then that's definitely a pro-spoiler stand. :p

As for spoilers being not true, I can see that for Harry Potter, but outside of that, there's really not a culture where people are making up fake spoilers, so there's no reason for me to think, say, that people have been lying all these years about the plot of the Crying Game. :p

[wook77.livejournal.com]

I see your point. I think that is partly my fault, however, as I lifted just a sampling of the article.

I think there is a culture for making up spoilers. People do it to be assholes. IE - Howard Stern, around the time of Sixth Sense, made up a bunch of spoilers and put the real spoiler in there as well. People are dicks and they make things up to torque people. Heck, I know I've made up fake spoilers for the Dresden Files books that my family are currently devouring our way through. I do it to piss my sister off. Thankfully, she knows they're fake so she won't get mad at me. (We had this conversation awhile back about spoilers and she's definitely in the "spoilers spoil" camp.)

I have to admit to not seeing the Crying Game and, other than hearing about the andogynous dude that was also in Stargate, haven't really heard much about it so I can't say for sure on that one Got any for me? *winks*

But seriously - I see how spoilers have the ability to spoil, I just don't see how leaving LJ can stop the spoilers.

[masteroftrouble.livejournal.com]

I both agree and disagree with that. I mean, yeah spoilers are spoilers if you let them get to you... but then again, if it's something that you totally don't see coming, then it sucks and you're not surprised (which is how the writer/filmmaker want you to feel).

[wook77.livejournal.com]

:)

I think part of it is how people treat the spoilers. I'm thinking there are those who treat each spoiler as true and there are those that treat them as false. I'm in the second camp so I've been "spoiled" by spoilers but I still reacted to the different parts of the movie.

I do a fairly decent job of spoiling myself in movies (during one movie, I guessed who the killer was because of the jazz music they used to intro the movie. Yeah, it was a total guess but there it was). I still enjoy the journey along the way. There is no way anyone can spoil every detail.

[akakat.livejournal.com]

I loved that Time article. I've never quite understood what the whole kefuffle is about with spoilers. I rather like knowing what's going to happen so I can really appreciate what's going on and how events are building to whatever is going to happen. I'd compare it to reading a travel guide before visiting a city - i.e. going to the Louvre knowing the Mona Lisa is there and maybe even knowing 32 useless facts about the famous painting is a very different experience from turning a corner in a museum you know nothing about and BAM there's this amazing work of art. Knowing a bit about what you're going into is a different experience from complete surprise, but for me it's a better experience.

Which is all a long-winded way of saying that I'm a total spoiler-h0r and should not be allowed in polite company. I do my best not to "ruin" it for other people though.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

I don't mind knowing what's going to happen because until I get it for myself, I treat them as untrue and unfounded rumors.

I think of them the same way. Sure, they say that this is really cool or that this building is there but until I get there, there isn't physical proof for me to see it. I experience it for myself.

Heee, you're allowed in polite company! And I do the same, that's why I'm screening comments at first. I figured there was probably some asshat who would post the spoilers thinking it was funny. I never screen comments on my personal LJ but for this? I've pledged to be spoiler free and that's what I'm going to be.

[thescarletwoman.livejournal.com]

I have mixed feelings -- though I can tell you I'm not going anywhere to avoid the spoilers.

I was spoiled for OotP about five minutes before I went to pick up a book. I was moderating an RPG (message-board-based) at the time, and I was doing one last sweep of the community before going to get my copy. A troll appeared in one of the open forums and posted in HUGE letters that Sirius gets killed. At the time, Sirius was one of my favourite characters and to find out he got killed -- I was SO pissed off to have been spoiled.

I read no spoilers for HBP and I've been perusing some for DH but really, if a spoiler comes out, it'll be on July 20th when people in earlier time zones start trolling around. Until that point, I'm not believing a word I read.

It's more the... I like reading for the suspense and to hear that character X is getting killed -- particularly if it's a character I LIKE -- it makes me sniffle and dread getting to the proverbial page 806 (or page 711 depending on the version).

Besides -- Rocks fall, Everyone Dies.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

I'm very glad you're not going anywhere. See, in that sort of case, I would disregard until I was right there experiencing it. Then again, I have these trust issues where I assume people are probably lying assholes until proven innocent.

I'm the same. These "early" people are idiots. Sorry but I've seen how tight security around this book is. There really isn't much of a chance for people to have the book and be posting such detailed spoilers.

Dude - totally. That's it. Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies. See, we were spoiled years ago *winks*

[txrabbit.livejournal.com]

Ah, but Boba Fett did make it out of the Sarlacc Pit. I read it many, many years ago, it was a trilogy of Bounty Hunter Fics and they were all very nteresting. *grins*

[wook77.livejournal.com]

He did! And actually - did you ever read "Tales from Jabba's Palace"? There was a short story in there, methinks. If not, it's still a good book. The rancor keeper was sad :(

[coffeejunkii.livejournal.com]

i agree. whenever i see another post that declares people are going into hiding, i'm thinking that there's a much bigger chance of getting spoiled in rl, unless you get the book at midnight and then cut off all communication until you're done. and actually, i'd be worried about some random person immediately flipping to the end of the book and yelling out what happens. i also think there's such a hype about getting spoiled and staying spoilerfree in fandom that heightens people's sensitivity towards the subject.

or in short, i'm not going anywere :P

[wook77.livejournal.com]

Yes, it's really so very possible. I had a friend who woke up to the fake spoiler being discussed by the radio dj. She called me and begged for me to tell her it wasn't so.

Your point is exactly right - there's way too much of a possibility of random people bursting out the ending. Besides, it's not the ending that completely matters to me, it's the Harry/Draco and Dean/Seamus action along the way interactions along the way.

I'm glad you're not going anywhere *loves*

[melusinahp.livejournal.com]

I was spoiled by JKR's own site for OotP and SKY FUCKING NEWS for HBP, so, yes, I agree with you.

The reason I don't want spoilers beforehand is that I want to feel the full impact of surprise and each of the events. And I don't want to spend the whole book waiting around for X to die.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

Oh man, dude, those experiences are le suck. You should be able to trust those sorts of places to understand what spoilers are about. You've summed up my point exactly, leaving LJ doesn't fix that.

See, I don't do that. I read a spoiler and, honestly, I forget about it until after the event happens and go "oh, so that troll was actually telling the truth, how amazing" and then move on. I don't really fixate on the spoiler because I really don't trust people, I assume they're all lying until it's proven otherwise.