Help with canon

[wook77]

Ok, so this is what goes through my head as I'm trying to sleep... (yes, Yoda is talking to me)


Wook's canon question(s) of the moment -


Voldemort split his soul into a proposed 7 Horcruxes. Then he was "killed" by Harry.

When he was "killed", does that mean he used one of the Horcruxes so that there were only 6 for Harry and Dumbledore to destroy?

If he didn't, then how did he survive? Shouldn't his soul have been so weakened from being split up like that that he couldn't have survived without using one of his Horcruxes?

If he did, which one did he use?

Am I just being a moron because there's an obvious answer somewhere in the books that I didn't see? Has this been debated a gadzillion times and I just didn't pay attention?

Thoughts? Feelings? Suggestions? Links to previous discussions?

Comments

[midnitemaraud-r.livejournal.com]

My view on this:

Voldemort was trying to make 6 horcruxes so his soul would ultimately be in 7 pieces - 7 being a powerful magical number. Harry's murder was supposed to be the catalyst for his making another one - possibly the final one, though we don't know if or when Nagini was made into a horcrux, so it's a bit tricky.

Anyway, he survived because, while he had bits of his soul saved and encased in the various objects, he still had what was left of his soul (after the bits were split off) inside his own body. That's what 'fled' and 'lived' in the forest in Romania or wherever the hell it was he met both Quirrel, Wormtail and Bertha. And that's what is inside the body that Wormtail helped create for him in GoF. He didn't go and get one of his horcruxes and use the fragment encased inside.

See, the reason he didn't "die" and was able to be 'put back into another body' after his human body was 'destroyed/killed' or whatever that halloween night was because the horcruxes anchored his soul to the earth. His soul (what was left of it) couldn't 'pass on' to wherever it is souls go when a person dies and remained earth bound.

The pieces that are inside the horcruxes he had made (diary, cup, locket, etc.) are not used to 'reincarnate him', though in the case of the diary, we saw that that was something of a possibility because of the nature of the soul fragment interacting with the already-charmed diary, but the diary was different from the non-sentient and inanimate locket or cup. (Am I confusing you yet?)

He didn't die because he was 'anchored' to 'Earth' (or the living plane of existence) by having a horcrux. Having one is enough to do this when someone dies. Voldemort thought six (seven pieces) would be better than one (two pieces) because he's a nut case. :) When the body dies, the soul doesn't die with it. The soul would move on to wherever - to live Dumbledore's next great adventure or what have you. But the horcruxes don't let the soul move on, effectively rendering a person immortal, as long as there is a living body for them to inhabit, and of course with magic, a new one was actually created for Voldemort.

Was that clear(ish)?

[eviljade.livejournal.com]

Wow. You beat me to posting by a couple of minutes but that is very close to my response. Here I was thinking I must be the only one who was looking at it that way and you go and post nearly the same theory.

Very cool. :)

[midnitemaraud-r.livejournal.com]

Yay! *g*

(Not that my reply to Wook was all that articulate - I repeated myself a couple of times. :) It's easier with diagrams and pie charts!)

[eviljade.livejournal.com]

Seemed clear to me. Not repetitious at all.

Of course, that could be because I agreed with everything you said. *g*

[wook77.livejournal.com]

Excuse the stupid here (copping out by blaming the painkillers for my slowness)... so you're saying that Voldemort was going to the Potters to make the sixth horcrux because his soul would then be in 7 pieces but that, err, blew up in his face and so now there are really only 5 horcruxes plus that bit of soul that he couldn't finish using to make up a horcrux? Since Dumbledore and Harry destroyed two... there are now only 3 to go plus Voldie himself?

Also - how was Harry and Dumbledore able to destroy the Horcruxes if you can't do that? I'm sorry to be so slow on this.

[midnitemaraud-r.livejournal.com]

Well, that depends on a lot of things, namely on whether you believe that instead of turning the object he brought with him that night into a horcrux, he made Harry one (accidentally since it all went tits up). (Yes, I'm one of those! *g*)

There's also a question as to when he made Nagini a horcrux - was it before and she's just long lived (as some snake species are) or was it @ GoF era.

As far as we know, the horcruxes left are:

Hufflepuff Cup
Slytherin Locket
Nagini
X

X can either be Harry, or an unknown Ravenclaw or Gryffindor object. My theory is that he brought said object (Object A) with him that night to Godric's Hollow, but that the spell went awry, Voldie's body was killed by the AK that bounced off Harry, and his soul was ripped from his dying body and fled. Harry's scar was a result of the messed up horcrux spell, not the AK (since AK doesn't leave visible marks, so there had to be something else involved as well), and not even Lily's protection spell, because that was what caused the AK to rebound and wasn't a factor in the horcrux mishap.

When the AK rebounded and 'killed' his body, Object A, which he was holding in his hand, was dropped (which is why the horcrux spell got misdirected - Harry was in front of him.)

how was Harry and Dumbledore able to destroy the Horcruxes if you can't do that?

That's the key, yeah? We don't know because we haven't been told how to destroy a horcrux. We only have speculation so far.

Harry destroyed the diary with the basilisk fang. Was it the destruction of the diary or was it the poison from the fang? Was the soul fragment actually physically destroyed or did it just slingshot back to where the 'main' fragment was? See, this is a bit complicated and obviously just my own 'theory'. According to JKR, murder splits or 'fragments' a person's soul. Since very few people actually make horcruxes, the way I look at it is kind of like 'debris' - you have the main soul and bits of separated fragments hanging about around it, held kind of like gravity holds satellites (or moons) around a planet.

(But I also think that in order to make a horcrux, you can't use a fragment from a 'past' murder - you have to use a 'new' one for the spell to work. So Voldemort can't just take a random fragment of his soul and stick it inside an object - the spell itself is 2-part - 1) actively split off a piece and 2) encase it.) But I digress. :)

So when the soul is freed from the horcrux, the gravity force of the original soul kind of attracts it back, but it never becomes whole with the original, just kind of hangs about and follows it - like iron filing being dragged by a magnet. The soul isn't 'killed' when a horcrux itself is destroyed - just neutralized from it's original purpose - it's not locked up and 'anchoring' the main soul bit to the earth-bound plane any longer.

We don't know what caused Dumbledore to crisp his hand. I personally don't think it was the actual destruction of the ring itself, but more the cave-like booby traps he had to get past first in order to GET the ring. (i.e. look how difficult and dangerous it was to get the locket!) And when Harry was hurt in CoS, it was from the basilisk venom he'd already been jabbed with, not from destroying the diary itself. Destroying the diary separated the soul fragment from the diary itself and the enchantments on the diary, which is why Tom 'disappeared', not because the soul fragment was destroyed.

We know that Dementors can suck souls, but we don't really know what happens to the soul once they kiss someone. If the dementor is killed, does that free the souls within it? Or do Dementors literally 'kill'/'destroy' souls for good? (What is a soul actually made of, you know?)

So lots of questions and possibilities, no concrete answers, (yet! - also we don't know what the horcrux spell really entails - is it an incantation? does it need a potion? both? Do you say/do the spell before the murder? After?)

But anyway, that's how I see it.