wook77 | POV Poll

regarding switching POV - it all depends on how well the author does it. Sometimes it can be downright confusing, but other times the author handles the transition well and it's obvious when there has been a change.

*agrees* I like when the POV switch is a clear and deliberate act. (then again,I also like when my spacebar cooperates and it isn't so we can't always get what we want *pouts*)

I chose 2nd person POV as one I "abhor" but I don't really abhor it. Abhor is such a strong word. But now I look like an intolerant freak cos no-one else picked anything! HOMG. ;)

I'd say that, in my experience (with pro as well as fan fic), 2nd person POV is rarely done well over a longer work. As a drabble or short fic, sure. But in anything over about 2-3K words? It'd have to be pretty darn good writing.

As with all fic, however, it depends on how well the author crafts their work. I love changing POV fics that do it well (as in, it's a deliberate narrative strategy rather than accidental inconsistency...!).

I getcha. Perhaps abhor was a bit too strong of a word choice. *wonders if she can change it*

I like changing POV when it's done well, as well. It's when you're reading and all of a sudden you have no idea that they changed that I get upset.

I was thinking of "The Story of 'O'" as one that is truly well done with changing POV. It was a Snarry, if I'm remembering correctly (and I htink I am as it's the only Snarry I've read that I keep going back to).

I was thinking of "The Story of 'O'" as one that is truly well done with changing POV. It was a Snarry,

LOL. I was just about to write, "No, no, Wook, The Story of O is by Pauline Reage!" God, I'm such a n00b at times. ;)

And, no, I think the Poll Gods don't allow you to change it after it's posted. That's ok, I read it as "which POV I didn't prefer."

Have pimped on my LJ.

*snirt* I thought the same thing when I started reading it. It was on inkstained fingers if I remember correctly. It starts out as Drarry and ends with Snarry. Very well done, actually.

Dumb Poll Gods.*kicks* I'm glad you read it as I intended though.

YAY for pimpage! (the whole purpose is that I'm writing a story and I'm torn between writing it as a changing POV story or a 3rd person)

argh, i thought ten was "yay" and one was "argh"! so of course i feel "yay!" about third person pov.

i also enjoy reading first and second person pov, but i think that's much harder to pull off than third person.

you can change your response by going up to "viewpoll results" and then "take poll"(I learned that one when I did the same thing for 3rd person POV...)

I agree that 1st and 2nd is hard to pull off, especially 2nd. I've only ever read 1 story in 2nd that I enjoyed.

done!

i have read very few stories in second person pov, and i can't remember any of them right now...

If the POV switch is done well, ie. understandable and there's a reason for it, then I'm all for switching. If it's just a flip in the author's writing and they're doing it just to fuck with me then I'll stop reading.

I like first person POV and a lot of my original fic is like that. It can be a very very powerful way of writing. Just my opinion of course.

I like 1st and 3rd especially.

jamie2109 did a 2nd person that I really enjoyed but that's about the only one I can think of.

I agree completely with your first statement.

I'll have to have you read over the story that started this when I get a bit more written and the challenge/exchange pressure is off both of us.

Hmmm, which one by Jaz are you talking about? I have probably read it, but I'm drawing a blank right now.

I'll look it over if you want before you post it. :) I'm still working on the other 2 things you sent me, dammit I wish I could churn out fic that quick.

ps... fixed

oh trust me,this shan't be ready for quite awhile. I have two different versions started but they aren't moving very well.

I can't remember the title off the top of my head. *pouts*

The part 5 has been sitting in my "my documents" for about 2 months. I just tweaked it a bit more. So, I've only really churned out 1 fic lately...

okay, first off i somehow lost you off of my friends page [*whimper*] and because i am a complete plonker, i didn't notice until fungus pimped your poll and i wonder why i hadn't seen it. so if you are wondering why i've been so quiet, that is why [*headdesk*] now have a bunch of your fic i need to catch up on, but it will not happen tonight as too much to do.

second, the poll. i was completely useless since every question i kept going, well, it depends. because i don't give a rats arse what pov it is if the story is well written. i don't like or dislike one over the other. and i change pov regularly when i write, but it is usually one chapter d, next chapter h, next chapter d kind of thing. again, it doesn't matter to me if the story is well written. also i didn't know if you wanted reading or writing preferences. i write almost exclusively in tight third, but i have written in first, and first w/second (as in "i do this, and you do that"). i think it is probably hardest to find a second person pov that is well written, but it is dynamite when you do, fresh and interesting and, well, different.

so there you go. i have no opinion on pov. unless it is used badly and then i just hit the back button.

First - you are completely wrong on your uselessness. This comment is just as important as any other one.

Second - agrees almost completely and totally. 2nd Person is hard to find a good fic in (that sentence makes my brain hurt and I can't think of how to rephrase as I'm too busy fighting with my spacebar). However, when it's done well, I enjoy it.

Third - no biggie...I've been writing darker things lately so I figured that you weren't reading them as I know you don't prefer that type of work. However, I do enjoy being on your flist...so YAY for adding me.

Hi Wook, interesting poll!

this is NOT meant to be wank, just info that may or may not be helpful:

I had to take it twice though because I usually associate "1" with being bad and "10" with being "good." I actually write social science surveys from time to time... and this kind of relationship (1=bad, 10=good) is fairly normalized for English-speaking persons.

Just a thought if some of your numbers come up funny.

I realized that after I took the poll... I'm an idiot *grimaces*. I was thinking more along the lines of ...#1 = being a good thing but not thinking about poll taking stuff.

No wank but I just had to use the icon.... *grins*

When a person is using first-person POV and changes characters ... that does one over on my brain. Often the character's voices don't differ enough for me to be able to distinguish between them. Even without that issue though I don't like first person POV, even when done well. It just makes me feel all weird. I don't know. My ego has trouble coping with it, or something. *shrug*

Drabbles and microfics are okay in second person POV but I think it would get irritating over a longer period of time. It's suitable for a vignette, not suitable for an actual story.

Normally third-person POV with character switching doesn't bother me ... as long as it's a marked switch (like when there's a break between one character and another, not like a "omg now we're switching to Draco's POV guys!!1" sort of thing). There are some fics, however, that seem to be aiming for either switching or omniscient and end up with some weird, weird mixture that doesn't work at all. I pretty much grew up on the Star Wars EU books which in my opinion as a whole have good POV-switching despite having to keep track of about a zillion characters, so maybe this has made me extra-sensitive to weird POV problems. (Speaking of, do you read the EU books? I don't know many people who do and am always excited to find more.)

Really the most important thing about POV is that it's done consistently and well. I suppose that's the most important thing about anything to do with writing though, hah.

EU = extended universe? evil universe? extra uhnions?

Expanded Universe -- basically all the books, comics, video games, etc. In Star Wars, they're not REALLY canon, but they're SORT OF canon.

I've read quite a few of the EU books. I also grab up all the comics I can afford (and there are far too many of those for my wallet). Any favorites for you? (err, off topic but I haven't met too many people who read them either.)

I agree with switching 1st person is really odd when you bounce from character to character. I appreciate the linebreak or something similar to tell me when they're changing.

*agrees* with the second person statement above...

I don't mind when people switch from 1st to 3rd as long as it's done well.

Oh, favorite EU books ... This is hard. My most favorite are the X-wing books, because omfg TOO FUNNY (and I also have a crush on pretty much every character, hah), right, but I'm also really fond of the NJO books and these newer post-NJO books. My favorite comics are the Mara Jade ones and the Crimson Empire ones. Also, I think I'm probably the only person in the universe who read the Star Wars books before they ever saw the movies.

So which ones do you like? I'm guessing the X-wing ones as well because I saw there are some icons of it. Have you read Republic Commando: Hard Contact or whatever that one was? I heard it was really good but never got around to it.

Anyway, I've friended you because Star Wars wheee and so on.

I adore the X-wing books. They are my absolute favorites. Wedge Antilles is THE man for me. Gah,I love him.

I have to admit that if it deals with the Yuzhong Vong,I'm really leery of reading it. They annoy the shit outta me and since they killed Chewie RWARRRRR. They were just really cliched.

I haveto admit I grew up with the movies (I saw ANH in utero and then as a month old baby, a 2 month old baby, etc) so I can't remember not being addicted to Star Wars.

YAY for more friends! Will friend back after I'm done commenting cause, well, star wars=love.

I haven't read that book but it's on my amazon list to get the next time I order. I just bought Republic Commando for XBox,so I'm psyched for that. I'm a KOTOR freak as well.

God I love star wars. My family and friends just don't get the addiction but MAN,the books are so well written. I love michael stackpole and his Corran Horn and babbling so I'll stop...

BTW, I have a couple Luke/Wedge Luke/Biggs type things coming up if you like those ships...

The NJO books got a lot better as the series went along. There were some plots and storylines that were weird, but thrilling nonetheless. The Jaina and Jacen storylines were, I thought, particularly good as they progressed. And if you haven't read the ones out in this new Dark Nest trilogy -- well, Luke & Mara's son is in them, and his name is Ben and he has red hair and freckles and is SO adorable. (But, yes, the Yuuzhan Vong were kind of like the biological Borg, except more obsessed with religion. I didn't like them, but I like everyone else, so I read.)

I just got KOTOR like, five weeks or so ago because it was on sale at Best Buy. I haven't played it much yet (total Sims2 addict, hah) but I always mean to.

God I love star wars. My family and friends just don't get the addiction but MAN,the books are so well written. I love michael stackpole and his Corran Horn and babbling so I'll stop...

You know, not many people I know get the addiction either. It's true though -- most of the books ARE well-written (The Black Fleet Crisis trilogy not so much. I pretend that one doesn't exist.) and they're all great fun. Now I want to go read the X-wing books again, but I don't have the time!

Don't get me started on POV, *shakes head*, that was a headache I didnt need. I'm not a fan of any, but I love all, any fic written, from any perspective , if done well. As for changing POV, *groans*, some people have a real issue with it with in a fic. I do not. Somehow I think that 'Dear Reader' should be able to realise you've shifted POV or characters. This is either done by a location shift, a tense shift, or just the way they talk or who they are talking to.

Chaeldub thought POV changes were good and should be attempted more often. :D

err, sorry? *grins* *offers biscuit* Better? As long as it's done well, I don't mind so much although like I said above, 2nd person eventually starts to wear on me if the story is longer than about 2k.

Okay, I clicked "no" to preference, because POV will not make me read or refrain from reading a fic. 3rd person, I think most agree, is the easier one to write and the hard one to go wrong with. However, if a fic is written in 1st or 2nd person they have the potential to become much more personal and intense. I have yet to see it work for a long fic (even if I've seen it in RL novels), but I bet some are out there, and I've read outstanding short fic in 1st and especially 2nd person.

*agrees* 3rd person is the easiest. I'm scared to try 2nd person...I can't think of a situation where I would want it to work (especially after reading

emmagrant01's comment below about a weird experience.

I like 1st if done well. There are so many limits though because of the lack of outside information to the reader so sometimes things that the author writes in leaves me going... huh? how could they know that?

I've seen 2nd person done well when the narrating character (only 1!) tells the reader a story, sort of. I've done it once, and I do not dare judge if it was worth anything, but I did it to try the feel of it.

I agree on 1st there, but it gets so intense if it's done well. And that mistake of too much information is one to be wary of.

It looks like I agree with many of the commenters above!

As a writer, I prefer third person limited POV, mostly because I like getting into one character's head and staying there. I like presenting a story from one person's perspective, especially when there's a mystery or some sort of plot point that requires a revelation. I just find it easier to keep everything straight in my head when I am telling it from one person's perspective.

As a reader, I also prefer third person limited, for many of the same reasons. I like getting inside one character's head and seeing the story from their POV. This works especially well in the HP fandom IMO because the canon itself is (almost always) told in third person limited, so a similar structure in fanfic seems to mirror that well.

My issue with second person is that I really don't like the whole ABH (Anywhere But Here, another name for second person in case you haven't seen that term before) genre -- it always feels like someone is trying to tell the reader what they ought to feel in a particular situation, and that just grates on me. There was an ABH fic I read once that basically had "you" watching two characters have sex. It was fine until the end, when the characters notice "you" are there and pull you into the sex scene and... stroke "your" cock. I got to that and went 0_o. Cause you know, I'm female, and that sort of threw me out of the whole thing.

And I think it bothered me on some deeper level, because for me, reading or writing fan fiction is not about self-insertion. Sure, I base characters' reactions to things on how I would react, but also on how I know other people close to me would react -- that's a great resource and I'd be a fool not to use it. But I want to read about characters someone else has created and have the option to draw any parallels myself. I dislike the idea of the author telling "me" how I ought to react in any particular situation, if that makes any sense.

As for third person omniscient, I suppose I see it well done only rarely. It often just results in something confusing, and I think it's much harder to convey certain kinds of stories that way. I have read fics where the writer was able to keep many different POVs clear, but the general rule seems to be not to switch inside a single paragraph.

First - I can't get the idea of that fic out of my head that you mentioned above *shudders*. That would just weird me out.

Moving on - I like your feelings on self-insertion. If fanfiction were about self-insertion... we'd have a whole heck of a lot more mary sues/gary sues running around.

I like first person but only when the author considers all the information being given. I hate when I'm reading a 1st person and the character seems to know way too much information about things that were happening while they were somewhere else.

Switching from person to person/ 1st to 3rd or whichever in one paragraph makes my head hurt.

Hi. :) Okay, so I prefer third person POV vastly, just because first person has to be done just so, so well to be pulled off and I hate second person POV. I don't mind switching when it's deliberate, if that makes sense. Like, if one section is Harry-POV and then the next is Snape-POV and so forth, very consistently and intentionally. When it goes like this:

Harry's heart beat extra fast and he thought he might faint. "Don't do that, Draco!" he said, hoping Draco would listen to him.

Draco rolled his eyes to himself. Harry was always such a drama queen. He got impatient. "Don't be stupid," he said, but it looked like Harry was just going to be stubborn about it.

Harry crossed his arms and started to get upset.

...

That switches back and forth with every line and that just isn't on. That's an official crime of writing, though professional authors do it all the time. A prof of mine called it the "omniscient narrator" perspective, as opposed to just telling the story from one point of view. And then you can vary in terms of how close to a particular character you get. It's possible to tell a story from third person POV and still narrate from an objective place. Or you can tell it from a very immediate third person POV, where the narrative is always also told through that character's perceptions.

Example of #1:

Draco looked up. The wind ruffled his hair and he absentmindedly combed his fingers through it. Harry was caught in a traffic jam, but there was no way he could have known that, and his impatience grew. He shifted weight from foot to foot and swore that he would wait only ten minutes and then leave.

Example of #2:

Draco looked up. The wind has ruffled his hair and he reached up to comb his fingers through it. Where was Harry? His impatience grew. He shifted weight from foot to foot and swore that he would wait only ten minutes and then leave.

It's a very subtle difference, but in the first, you have a narrator that still observes Draco and comments on his actions and other bits of the plot that are outside his own personal realm. In the second, you get only his own observations, both of his own behaviour and of what's going on around him. I enjoy both, both for reading and writing.

Second person always sounds too put-on to me, like it's trying too hard. I've yet to read a sampling of it that doesn't just sound self-conscious in the sense that you're always aware of it as a writing gimmick, rather than a simple tool for telling a story. And I'm in it for the story, not for the cogs and bolts that make it go, you know?

Sorry to ramble, but it was fun. :D

I prefer -
1st Person: is perfect for angsty stories. ^^
2nd Person: is good for short ones and for short interludes or to indicate an altered mindset.
3rd Person: is the most natural for me, and the easiest to read for some reason
Something else I'll describe in a comment: I like it when the POV/change of POV is consistent.

I abhor -
Something I'll describe below: People starting something in first person then realising that it should be in third and miss half of the verbs during adjusting the pov.

When an author switches POV in a story, does it annoy you as a reader: only when the switch is not thought trough, is in the middle of a chapter, is a one-time occurrence, is something that affects the style in a bad way.

I don't have any preference for PoV, as long as the once chosen is written well. As long as there is a consistent PoV within a scene I'm happy. I normally loathe PoV switches within a scene, but even that, well handled and well written, I could like.

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